Rothiemay haplogroup people

The branches of the Rothiemay Area Lobbans (FT14993)

Distribution map of main NE Scotland Lobban family branches. Base map from ANESFHS. Data overlay by C.S. Lobban. The numbers are percentages and totals of Lobban births (baptisms) in the parish from parish records, i.e., through 1854. Click to enlarge.
Banffshire Lobban branches as determined from Y-DNA

The Rothiemay area Lobbans is a genetically-related group (i.e., haplogroup) (technically identified as FT14993) within the Banffshire Lobbans (R-BY227100) of the NE Scotland Lobbans haplogroup (R-JFS0275), geographically located in northwestern Banffshire and adjacent Aberdeenshire (red on map above).  The Marnoch Area Lobbans, PF3667  (yellow on the map), are closely related. Rothiemay area Lobbans contains nine family branches, as shown below, of which two have been genetically identified in haplogroups: the Loanend Kinnoir–Drumblade tree (FT120187) and the Knabbygates Lobbans (BY98993).  The branches with connections documented by records all lead back to Andrew Loban, b. abt 1590, through one of his five grandsons (see diagram below). The Knabbygates line connection is inferred from the DNA connection between donors #1 and #7 and is postulated to occur earlier than the five grandsons, perhaps via one of Andrew’s unknown sons, as explained in another page. Also explained there is that the evidence for the name of this patriarch is uncertain, but even if the name is different, the structure is the same.

I  patched together the lines of descent using Family Tree Maker and posted the composite tree is on my MyHeritage: Rothiemay Area Lobbans tree (most recent = build 5). If there are questions as you use it, please let me know. The definitive trees remain the Syd Lobban Collection.  I also generated the standard Descendants Report  (text including all the notes) for Andrew Lobban–274 pp. I cut off at 9 generations to avoid including any living people. It is a large pdf (12MB), download here. However, the easiest way to understand the structure of the composite tree is shown below.

Top of the Rothiemay Lobbans haplogroup with putative patriarch Andrew Loban (ca. 1590), showing connections known from records and Y-DNA data to Mar. 2019.

Mapping the combined family tree

In order to understand the structure of the large combined tree, I had to find a way to run a left-to-right descendants tree, rather like a pedigree tree format, or the biological phylogenetic trees with which I work in my diatom research. The usual top-to-bottom arrangement shown in Ancestry, MyHeritage, and the computer software programs are impossible to follow because they become hopelessly wide (MyHeritage’s is the worst, but we use it so you can see Syd’s notes).  Thanks to my wife’s 2nd cousin, genealogist Adrian Gravelle, for finding me a program that would produce the chart I wanted and, with some work across three programs, constructed the diagram you see below, which gives a visual overview of the whole group. The tree itself has been reduced on this page to a size where the names are not legible, but a readable chart can  be seen here (13.5 MB jpg image; save image to download and then you can scale it at will).

The tree shown includes nine generations from the founder (who is the most recent common ancestor [MRCA] of everyone else), male lines only (sorry, ladies, tracing the Lobban name here, and including everyone would make this chart more than twice as long; spouses of the daughters are included).  Family groups present at the 9th generation are marked with a line, with the parents at the preceding branch point (boxed in red) used as the handle for the group. These groups indicate where there are known or likely to be living descendants.  The people flagged in green in the 9th generation are mentioned in the text below. A few higher branch points are also indicated, on the left, including the five grandsons of the founder and the MRCAs of the Loanend Kinnoir–Drumblade and Knabbygates trees.  A descriptive account follows.

Map of Rothiemay Area Lobbans combined trees, source tree names in large italics on right-hand side. Further explanation in text. Graphic by C.S. Lobban based on Syd Lobban’s trees. MRCA = most recent common ancestors of known DNA groupings. Click to enlarge. The William & Bathia tree was found to belong in the Moray Lobbans. The text has been corrected but I still need to remake this chart. CSL Feb 2023.

Notes on the branches (in the order on the chart)

Knabbygates tree (BY98993)

This is my own and I have already posted a summary and a full account (see story).  In addition my uncle Alan Rudge’s manuscript (A History of Lobban full-text pdf), gives a wealth of detail, including 5 pages on life there in the 19th C. Its connection to Andrew Loban has been deduced from the DNA relationship with the Boginspro line (discussed here). Here I just want to sketch the outline in keeping with the other brief accounts here. The earliest reliably known ancestor is  William Lobban (b. ca. 1685 at Ternemny farm, Rothiemay), m. Isobel Adam; he was the man who signed the first tenancy for this home and steading and founded the Knabbygates dynasty. Although the first-born sons in this line stayed at Knabbygates for nearly 200 years, the other children had to seek their fortunes elsewhere. Two such sons lead to the two groups present in the 9th generation, Alexander 1809 = Janet Wilson and his brother William 1815 = Mgt Hay.

Alexander 1809 = Janet Wilson. Missionary work took Rev. Alexander Lobban (1847–1903) the north of England to serve a displaced Scots shipbuilding community in Tyneside (see Emigrants to England). A branch of the family still lives in Hebburn. Rev. Alexander’s brother Joseph Lobban (b. 1857) and sister Isabella (b. 1856; m. William A. Howatt) emigrated to Minnesota, USA; his son William Herbert Lobban emigrated to New Zealand. Alexander’s son Alexander Lobban (1877–1949) (my grandfather) took his trade as a joiner to Southampton before WW1, and most of my close relatives are scattered around southern England.

William 1815 = Mgt Hay / Jessie Burnett. John James Hay Lobban (1871–1939) became a Lecturer in English Literature at Birkbeck College, London, England and married Lillian Mary Couch, sister of the famous historian and Professor of English Literature, Cambridge, Sir Arthur Quiller Couch, but they had no children. Andrew Burnett Lobban (1863–bef. 1920), reputedly William’s illegitimate son with Jessie Burnett, emigrated to the USA with his wife Ellen (Nellie) Fraser (details); again no known children.

 “Rothiemay-Rathven” tree

This is a large set of trees with two roots, one of which is now known to connect to Andrew Loban. The group present in the 9th generation is the “James 1777= Ann Eddie” group.  John Lobban (1856–1932) (9th generation), m. Ann Mavor Paterson of Hopeman appear in both the Rothiemay & Rathven tree and the William & Bathia tree. Their son Albert Patterson Lobban (1898–1984) emigrated to Canada;  another of their sons died in Toronto, Canada in 1917, during the influenza epidemic (Emigrants to Canada). Three  of John and Ann’s sons served in WW1 and one, John,  was killed (WW1).

The rest of the Rothiemay-Rathven tree comprises the many descendants of William Loban (b. 1732 Marnoch) and Margaret Reburn. They proved to be a separate haplogroup, PF3667, and, as suggested by the geographic distribution has an older connection to the Rothiemay Area Lobbans  (see Marnoch families summary).

“Drumblade & Loanend Kinnoir” tree  (FT120187)

Now established as a subgroup FT120187 within FT14993, the Loanend and Boginspro family lines effectively start  from Andrew’s grandson James  (b. 18 Mar 1660 in Forgue Parish), m. Margaret Pittendriech in Rothiemay 11 Aug 1692.  The most recent common ancestor between the two lines is James’ grandson, William  (b. 1717, Drumblade), m. Jean Stewart, shown on the map above. The Loanend and Boginspro donors are 6th cousins. The tree established from parish records provides strong “ground-truth” for the DNA results that link one descendant from each branch.

Their son Robert  (b. 1748, Huntly), m. Susan Cowie,  settled at Loanend and the family stayed there until at least their great grandson, William (1857–1913). William and Jean’s  grandson John (1777–1869, born in Boginspro), son of George  (abt. 1750), married  Ann Gibb. The records do not specify the farm for most of the descendants but the living descendant told me that they were at Boginspro for generations. Of course, as with Knabbygates, many of the boys in each generation left home. There is a Lobban cemetary near Loanend farm.

Part of family tree showing the connection of the Loanend and Boginspro lines (MRCA William Lobban 1717)

On the Loanend side, three of the sons of John Lobban (1838–1910), m. Margaret Roy emigrated.  Peter McKay Lobban (1871–1913) m. Isabella Fenton emigrated to Canada in 1905 and was in Kingston, Ontario in 1911, but died in Portsmouth, NH, USA. His brother William Lobban (1873–1942) emigrated to the USA via Canada, was drafted into the US Army in 1917 and naturalized in 1919; he died in Pasadena, CA. Their brother Robert Lobban (1878–1961) m. Marion [Marshall] in London in April 1909 and emigrated to New South Wales, Australia in November that year. Their son, Flying Officer John Gordon Lobban, 423771, RAAF, was killed 29 Apr 1944 in a plane crash in Australia. Private John Lobban (1897-1917), son of fourth brother James Lobban and Mary Ann Mann, died of wounds in World War I.

Robert’s great grandson, Alexander Lobban (b. 1842, Huntly), who was accused of having a child with Ann Harper,  fled to Newcastle, England where he married Isabella Smith and founded a Lobban family in Sunderland (see Emigrants to England). A descendant of the illegitimate child with Ann Harper  (#11 in our DNA charts) recently used the DF89 test to show that the father was not a Lobban (see page on NPEs). Thus that child, Alexander Lobban (1867–1949), m. Margaret Milne, and his descendants, while part of the Rothiemay Area Lobban family, are genetically not in FT14993, whereas Alexander and Isabella’s are.

On the Boginspro side, George’s great grandson, John Lobban (b. 1845, Boginspro), m. Clementina Andrew, emigrated to Massachussetts, USA in 1883; their last three children were born there (details).

The bottom line

The Y-DNA tree shows only the relationships between the present donors, and FTDNA establishes haplogroups only when there are at least two related donors. Thus the Loanend and Boginspro donors form a group and we know from records that the two donors are 6th cousins. Similar groups could be established for the “James 1777= Ann Eddie” group.  There is little point, however, in using expensive Y-700 DNA tests to confirm what is already clear from parish records, but since Y-700 DNA evidence now shows the William  & Bathis tree is part of the Urquhart haplogroup, it would be useful to test someone in the non-Marnoch families in the Rothiemay-Rathven tree. Unfortunately, it has so far not been possible to establish an  inexpensive single-nucleotide test for the Rothiemay Area Lobbans.


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Prepared by Chris S. Lobban, published 1 Apr. 2019, updated 9 Feb 2023.